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Surrounding the JonBenet Ramsey Murder case
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|Lance Matthews Solution
To the problems on
The Boulder News Forum (BNF)
On The JonBenet Discussion Board
A Special Discussion on the Dave Lucas Radio Show
February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST
Part 1 of 7
RealAudio of Part 1 of the February 15, 1999
Dave Lucas Radio Show
Click above to hear the RealAudio
|TRANSCRIPT PART 1
START OF THE SHOW
And Dave Lucas's Commentary
Over two years have passed since the tragic death of little JonBenet Ramsey. And in that time many subcultures of discussions have sprung up and one of these subcultures is going to be the top of our discussion this segment of the program. We are talking about the Boulder News JonBenet murder discussion forum which is on the Internet. Now I wasn't there in the beginning. Matter a fact I had just begun reading there when I had a chance meeting with a young man named Lance Matthews and he recommended that I check it out. Now since that day I've visited the forum on several occasions, I've watched the topic of threads ranging from serious discussions on aspects of the murder to vicious personal attacks on other posters characters and I've even seen "net rage," people encouraging others to reach pass their computers and actually try and harm other people at their places of employment and even in their homes.
Now ladies and gentlemen it is sickening to see a forum that is suppose to be a discussion about a murde#FF0000 child turn into such an abuse of freedom of speech and such an abuse of something like the Boulder News Forum. I have seen the forum due to this abuse and recently it was opened again. The funny thing is that the same folks whined and whales and cried and complained about the forums closing are the same people who made a mockery of the case and abused this venue of expression once again so during this segment of our program tonight. WROW welcomes all posters and lurkers from the Boulder News Forum on the Internet to join us in an on-air discussion of this particular forum and it's future applications in the justice for JonBenet Ramsey and their are many forums on the Internet where people can go and speak their mind and you know what, a lot of times you get nitwits and idiots who just like to get on there and I guess they got nothing better to do. They are ti#FF0000 of being on all those sex channels, you know sixty year old men pretending they are thirteen year old girls and that sort of folks so they come and try and trash forums and other places of meaningful discussion on the Internet and this gives the Internet a bad name and it really takes down these great forums and these great places of discussion.
It is like having a town drunk wander into an old town square meeting in the days of your. Totally ruins everything. So if your out there on the Internet listening tonight and especially if you've been posing or lurking on the Boulder News Forum, you are welcome to give us a call. The 800 number for those of you out there on the world wide wake is 1-800-WROW590. Folks who are local can reach us 476-5959. If your in your car it's #590 and everyone your welcome to call, we would like to hear from you so we got a few different issues here, we've got JonBenet Ramsey, the murder case and if you were listening to the CBS radio news at midnight you heard about a new development there. We are also talking about the Internet and one of the big travesties on the Internet, these people who come along and trash forums and chat rooms and close them down and ruin it for the people there for legitimate discussion and expression and joining us right now by telephone we have Lance Matthews. Hi Lance
|Lance Matthews: Hey Dave, how is it going?
Dave Lucas: Pretty good, now Lance, now Lance right now is in the WROW chat room monitoring what's going on there. What is going on in the chat room Lance?
Lance Matthews: Oh just the usual BS, just people talking back and forth
Dave Lucas: How many people are logged in right now?
Lance Matthews: Right now it's a tiny crowd Dave, we only have, let's see, eight and there is even a mysterious CaptainNLSmith who just lurking.
Dave Lucas: So we have some people on there.
Lance Matthews: Oh yeah.
Dave Lucas: And I, I guess that people know about this that there was a posting on the Boulder News Forum that told them that this was going to happen and again we do welcome anyone locally who wants to call in that has a grip about the Internet and about some of the things that go on there because this discussion indeed is about abuse. It is really sickening to see people abuse some of the fine things and as a matter of fact let my digress for a moment, there are also people out there who have nothing better to do than to play hacker and sometimes they even go in and destroy other people's web sites and that is totally, I mean that is unpardonable in my way of thinking. First of all Lance, I think the Internet should be free. I don't think we should have to pay to get on the Internet unless of course your using Road Runner because it's so darn fast, it's, I mean after all the frustration in waiting, forty bucks a months is a small price to pay for having the Internet virtually, I mean really at your fingertips, to have screens explode before you and milliseconds, it is truly amazing.
Lance Matthews: You know, you know what's funny about that too, eh, a ridiculous post on BNF recently is why I use a Road Runner service and it's kind of funny because if you add it up Dave, if your gonna pay for basic cable, if you live where I do you get one channel and that's blurry. You have to pay for basic cable anyway that's gonna to be something like twenty something dollars and then your going to pay for your monthly and then another phone line if you want a free phone line. So you go on Road Runner, it's forty bucks and you got the whole deal. They give you basic cable for free, that's hooked up to my TV now, I'm on the Internet through cable and my phone's free.
Dave Lucas: And your always on the Internet, you never have to get off.
Lance Matthews: Yeah that's true.
Dave Lucas: That's the truly amazing part of it. You don't have to worry about your dial up connection dropping out, you don't have to worry about getting off the phone to pick up messages or whatever, your just there all the time, you turn on the computer or leave on the computer and Road Runner is there.
Lance Matthews: Oh, you know what you said earlier about the chat room? About, you know, it is kind of funny because some people were saying oh you know we'll protest the show and we won't show up in chat but the funny thing is that somebody let me know that most of the people that said that are over in a different chat room listening to the show anyway.
Dave Lucas: So they are chatting anyway so they are doing it in a place all their own.
Lance Matthews: A big WHATEVER to those people.
Dave Lucas: What's this now, now as I mentioned to the audience at the twelve o'clock CBS news and they may repeat it at two o'clock, I don't know but there was a, and I didn't catch the whole thing because I was busy doing some other stuff but they did mention something on the JonBenet Ramsey case and about a new book.
Lance Matthews: Boy, eh, you must be talking about Schiller's book. Yeah, this guy wrote a book and it's coming out.
Dave Lucas: Something about fibers.
Lance Matthews: Oh, the book is coming out on Thursday and it's a big thing. You know a lot of people are wondering about this book and they are putting pages up on, on different web sites, on different newspapers reporting, excerpts from it and there are a lot of interesting things coming out in this book. I should be, it suppose to be gonna be not, there telling it, they saying it going to be like really earth shattering, all the information they give on this book.
Dave Lucas: Really?
Lance Matthews: Oh yeah ! So I hope to read it, I will be there on Thursday picking it up also.
Dave Lucas: Now in one of those tabloids and I don't remember which one but da I stopped into Price Chopper this evening on my way here and there was something about JonBenet's mother did it or something like that. I didn't, I didn't, I was going to grab the tabloid but I was in a hurry and I didn't. Have you seen that one? I think it was the Enquirer.
Lance Matthews: Oh you know the tabloids are ridiculous, we've had the Burke did it, mommy confesses, throw the gay photographer from next door under the bus, I mean it, the tabloids are ridiculous. As far as the book goes Dave, and my physic sense tells me you have another caller, at least I have it on the chat log that's there is another caller there.
Dave Lucas: We do, we do indeed.
Lance Matthews: I believe this caller can answer a lot of questions about the book themselves, a lot better than I could.
Dave Lucas: Okay, caller, can you do that for us?
Jameson: Maybe, this is Jameson.
Dave Lucas: Hello Jameson
Jameson: Can you hear me?
Dave Lucas: We hear you fine.
Lance Matthews: Hi Jams
Jameson: Hi. Yeah, I know a little bit about the book. I talk to Lawrence Schiller a few times about it and I know that a year an a half ago he was working on this book in October 1997 and he was interviewing a lot of people in Boulder and when they were hesitate to speak he would say to them, "You know, don't worry about it the book is not going to be coming out till February or March of 1999," and it seemed so far away that the people opened up and talked to him and told him things because they felt that the case would basically be over by February or March of 1999. And what happened is that some of them told things and now they are kind of sorry that they did because information is coming out and the investigation is still at the point it's at they are panicking because it's not time for them to come out and say these things but the book is out anyway and a lot of things are going to be revealed that are the timing is really strange and questionable and that's why the Tv shows are going crazy.
Dave Lucas: Now, Lance and Jameson, a lot of people in the listening audience they are not on the web as much perhaps as much as they would like to be for various reasons and probably a lot of them don't check the latest news on the JonBenet Ramsey case. Is there anything that is new, that is earth shaking that is in the timetable or in the timeline that is something that we don't know or haven't heard yet. How is it progressing with this trial or hearing or whatever is going on there, we just get no news about it.
Jameson: You want to go with it Lance?
Lance Matthews: No, please, take it away.
Jameson: Okay. Well, there is two camps. One of them is the Anti-Ramsey's and they have an awful lot of speakers on their side so we hear a lot about evidence that the Ramsey's probably did it. They were sleeping in the house that night. Their investigators haven't name another killer. There are fiber's on the tape that may be from Patsy's jacket that she wore when she tucked the child in bed that night. But what they don't talk about is the fact that there is foreign DNA in her panties that is mixed with her blood from when she was sexually assaulted that night and I don't know where they think the parents got foreign DNA when they murde#FF0000 her at midnight. Did they go to the drugstore and order it? I don't, they don't talk about that. They don't talk about the fact of the teddy bear, they just kind of say that's not important but the teddy bear, the family never saw the teddy bear before the murder. The housekeeper never saw the teddy bear before the murder. Nobody who had even been in the house before the murder saw the teddy bear and it shows up after the murder on the child's bed and now it is missing. You know, is it important or not? The people who are against the Ramsey's want to not talk about evidence that looks for an intruder.
Lance Matthews: Your saying that nobody saw the teddy bear before the murder?
Jameson: Right, absolutely. The housekeeper said……
Lance Matthews: And now it is mysteriously gone?
Jameson: Well it was photographed by the police when they took pictures of the crime scene. It is clearly photographed on the bed. The police didn't show the crime scene photos to the Ramsey's, not….Because they were suspects.
Dave Lucas: Now since that time wasn't the house packed up and everything?
Jameson: Well the Ramsey's didn't get the house back for ten days.
Lance Matthews: Okay
Jameson: When the Ramsey's got the house back, they never went back into the house. They had some movers pack the house up for them. How do you say it, not certified but em, and there is no, nobody can find the doll now. The police say they don't have it but is it like the flashlight, was it taken and not and you know….
Lance Matthews: I mean do you think that every single thing in that house was documented as they removed it that they took and logged every painting, every every toothbrush? Are you saying they logged everything that was taken out of the house when they pack up and moved?
Jameson: No but they don't remember packing it and the Ramsey's don't have it.
Lance Matthews: Boy I don't remember what I had for breakfast the other day so I.
Jameson: You know I wouldn't even remember to be honest with you if you packed up my kids toys for two years and then brought them out I would probably look at some of them and go what cause I don't remember that.
Lance Matthews: I think the bear is a complete ruse.
Jameson: But the bear is a Santa Clause teddy bear and I think if you talk to most people, Santa Clauses, even teddy bear Santa Clause's are not around in June and July. You pack them up with Christmas decorations, you take them out with Christmas decorations and I think that particular Santa Clause would have stuck in some ones mind in fact Pam Paugh saw that Santa Clause when she went in the house with the police to pick up some clothing and she went into JonBenet's room and she got a metal from JonBenet's room to give to John and she saw that Santa Clause teddy bear and it did click to her that you know it's a Santa Clause, JonBenet was killed on Christmas and she's never going to see Christmas again and never see Santa Clause again so the Santa Clause clicked in her mind as being on the bed. It is nowhere to be found now, where was it. I mean, it's in the photos and it's missing now but the point is that no one has said that they ever saw that doll before the murder and that goes for the housekeeper, company, people who where at the party.
Lance Matthews: So I was wondering on that. Was a was all the things that were packed up out of that house did that go at least out of JonBenet's room. Is that in police storage somewhere or did somebody just pack it up?
Jameson: No, it went to the Ramsey's.
Lance Matthews: Okay, so your and of course everybody the police are completely honest so we know they documented every little thing cause they are honest?
Jameson: I don't think anybody's honest.
Lance Matthews: There you go. Hey so somebody found a really nice guntz bear. I mean Guntz are very expensive bears so I know my daughter has a couple and somebody pocketed a bear. That's how I think.
Jameson: Well, I thought, I thought maybe a….. I thought maybe one of the movers took it as a souvenir but you can't accuse some one of that I mean or did somebody I mean how many cops, how many reporters, there were even a couple of break in's in that house between the time of the murder and the time that the house was packed up and gone. There were a couple break in's in that house so it could have been somebody who broke into the house and took it. There is no way of knowing where the bear is now. The fact is the bear appea#FF0000 on the bed the day after the murder that was not know to have been in that house before.
Dave Lucas: It is just amazing as well that it is such a convoluted story and so much was messed up and goofed up by the police and the investigating authorities. It is just mind boggling how many mistakes it made. Anybody who has watched the documentaries that have been on television about the case you gotta wonder what the hell were they thinking when they did some of the things they did when they were carrying on their so called investigation.
Jameson: Well, they were very focused on the fact that they right away thought the Ramsey's did this. There are stories that when they had the street blocked off with police cars and everything that neighbors were going down the street and stop and say what's going on and they were told don't worry about it, it is a domestic issue. If that's true that's really frightening. Neighbors were not questioned. The wife of, the man next door, Scott Gibbons saw some strange lights in the kitchen. His wife was questioned and she said the police had talked to her husband and her son really gave them two minutes of time, were are not interested in talking to the neighbors, canvassing the neighborhood, finding out if anybody had seen anything, heard anything, what they thought of the Ramsey's, if they saw a stranger, they did not.
Lance Matthews: Back to the whole, you just said something about the police cornering off the house and this is my biggest problem with the case and my reasons for suspecting the Ramsey's. The note. Let's bring it back to the note if we may, is that okay Dave?
Dave Lucas: Go right ahead
Lance Matthews: Cool, okay. Here's the note that says don't contact anybody, don't contact the police, don't contact the F.B.I., don't even talk to a stray dog or your daughter dies and they say very clearly don't contact anybody or your daughter dies, eh, these people had a party at their house, a party, a virtual party. The police pulled up in cruisers with lights on you know with regular marked cars pulled right into the house and and started their investigation. I don't know if I was a parent and I read a note that said you know if I contact anybody my daughter dies. I will tell you if I had a note like that my daughter was missing I would follow every single word of that note.
Jameson: Who are you blaming for this, the Ramsey's or the police?
Lance Matthews: Boy I guess it would all depend on that 911 call.
Jameson: That's what I was about to say. Until you hear the 911 tape you don't know what was said. It could be that Patsy said, "You know my God, I want you to come but what do we do," I mean she made two calls, what did she say? Did she say, you know eh….
Lance Matthews: Wouldn't you run out when the first car came and said wait a minute they said no police, they said they are watching us, please get the car out of here.
Jameson: Well they did move but I don't know how long it took but they did end up moving their cars because the Ramsey's did freak.
Lance Matthews: And then of course….
Jameson: But they just went around the corner.
Lance Matthews: And they invited people over to the house.
Jameson: They made those phone calls with the police in the house from what I understand and it was basically it was to get up the money. I understood that Fleet White brought over several thousands of dollars to help set up the ransom money and in the documentary John Ramsey said you know our friends, we were very fortunate, our friends had on, they had the money for us you know in cash that morning and the people they called over brought the money. The Fernies, the Whites and the Reverend.
Lance Matthews: And the Reverend had money?
Jameson: Well I would imagine, the church had money laying around, yeah.
Lance Matthews: So the Reverend came over to bring money?
Jameson: I am not sure why he came over but between those people they ended up with $118,000.00.
Lance Matthews: And that was the only people that come over that morning?
Jameson: There were the people that were there before the detective was there. After the detective was there, I don't know.
Dave Lucas: Okay we are going to take a real quick break here as it says in the book, "Don't try and grow a brain John." Actually that's what it says in the note and this is from the book, "A Mother Gone Bad," by Andrew Hodges. In the very beginning of the book, Dr. Hodges reproduces for us the JonBenet Ramsey ransom note of December 25th, 1996. The telephone lines are open 1-800-WROW-590 if your out there on the Internet and you have really got something to say, well this is your chance to say it, you have been warned, been invited, come on 1-800-WROW-590. It is a free call and it's your chance to voice your opinion, your anger, whatever you want to do. For those local who would like to discuss the case 476-5959 or #590 from your cellular telephone. And one thing that I think is really important is that we need to find justice. Justice for little JonBenet Ramsey. Just a little six year old girl who didn't harm anyone. And look at this big convoluted mess. It has almost turned into a cottage industries of books and next thing there will be a movie, right? Okay, we are going to take a quick break and we will be back. Your listening to Dave Lucas sitting in for Joe Lirosi on AM 590 WROW.
Transcript Is Continued ~ See Below
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