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Lance Matthews Solution
To the problems on
The Boulder News Forum (BNF)

On The JonBenet Discussion Board
A Special Discussion on the Dave Lucas Radio Show
February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST
Part 4 of 7


RealAudio of Part 4 of the February 15, 1999
Dave Lucas Radio Show

Click above to hear the RealAudio


Dave Lucas:   And one really fine forum was the Boulder News, the JonBenet Ramsey discussion forum. Unfortunately there are a lot of nitwits out there who get on these forums and ruin them for everybody else and it is really too bad they have made a mockery of the case and they just abuse these forums. What we are doing tonight, we are welcoming posters and lurkers from the Boulder News Forum to join us in this on air discussion of the forum and it's future implication, applications in justice for JonBenet. We are speaking on the phone with Jameson. Jameson moderates WebbSleuth's and is responsible for maintaining the Timeline. Lance Matthews is also with us. Lance right now is in the WROW chat room so you may want to go out to the web page at www.wrow.com, log on and get in the chat room, there are some other folks in there, aren't there Lance?

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah there are.

Lance Matthews: Funny they are making reference to my latest obscene posts on BNF. (laughs)

Dave Lucas: And if you hear any little tipping tappings while we are on the air, that's Lance tapping away at his computer. Tap for us Lance.

Lance Matthews: (tap, tap, tap)

Dave Lucas: There it is, he is tapping away at the computer and let's bring Jameson back up here where we can hear her. Hello?

Jameson: I'm here.

Dave Lucas: Okay, and a we heard the broadcast the CBS news at two o'clock and they did indeed mention the new book on the JonBenet case so where did we leave off guys?

Lance Matthews: Boy, I really don't know, it's funny but while we were on commercial they were arguing back and forth in chat about this intruder theory and I believe that is where we were.

Dave Lucas: Yes, the intruder, the idea that someone could have come in and used a stun gun on JonBenet and could have actually gone through the house undetected because I don't know Lance how much you know about big old houses but believe me I have been in a couple of them and you can get lost in them. There is a lot of things you can do without other people being aware of what your doing and I know that from personal experience so that theory I mean it's very believable to me.

Jameson: The parents were on the third floor, the third floor.

Dave Lucas: Ah

Jameson: And the child was taken from the second floor and in addition down to the basement

Dave Lucas: Well, now you have been in the house Jameson, give us some idea of exactly how big that place is?

Jameson: You know it looks bigger than it is when you are inside it's not, when they say it is a maze of a house it made me feel like when I got in there I wasn't going to be able to find my way but once you walk through the house you know exactly where you are I mean it's straight, you know the kitchen is in the center of the house and you know what is behind it and what is in front of it and what is to the side of it. It is not, it's not a place where your going to get lost after you been in there five or ten minutes. My theory is that the killer was in there for a couple hours. I think he was in there when the Ramsey's were visiting their friends the Whites, I think he went through the house, I think he knew where everything was, it was obvious whose bedroom was where.

Dave Lucas: Now do you think the killer was the type of person who did this on his or her own from the outside or could the killer been someone who had occasion to be in the house for some reason or another whether I don't know making a deliver or perhaps a friend of the Ramsey's or maybe one of their servants or what not?

Jameson: Ahh the Ramsey's, I have always said that I think the child was chosen for this by the killer and in that saying I have posted a couple theories, one being that perhaps it was somebody who worked in the house. They had done a lot of remodeling, they had a lot of caterers, they had housekeepers and their husbands and friends. They had 1,500 people I think she said came into the house for a tour a year or so before when when like her Junior League or whatever it was gave a great big Christmas tour of the nicest houses in Boulder.

Dave Lucas: 1,500 people?

Jameson: They opened their house up and they let people just tromp through their house. Their house was featu#FF0000 on a TV, a tour of the Ramsey home because it was like Better Homes and Garden type material.

Dave Lucas: So somebody, someone who was twisted or demented, someone with an a you know a lot of times twisted and demented people they can have very photographic minds and good memories could have actually gone through there and in his or her brain recorded everything and had things pretty much down pat so they had a real head start on you know what to find what they were looking for and how to go about getting there.

Jameson: Absolutely. No doubt, when I went in that house I really expected it was going to be a confusing house and it was not. I was absolutely not a confusing house.

Dave Lucas: So it would be easy for someone to go in there one time and have a pretty good idea where things were and whose room was where, etc. etc.

Jameson: Oh yeah, I went in there in October and by the time I went back in December I was giving the tour to the people I went with in December. And talking about you know look at this sliding door, look this could have happened. No, it is not a very confusing house to be in.

Dave Lucas: Lance, what is going on in the chat room. It sounds like your tapping away at the keyboard.

Lance Matthews: Oh, they're talking about da the post I recently put on the JonBenet forum and we'll get to that later.

Dave Lucas: Okay

Lance Matthews: Most definitely

Jameson: There is a question on the duct opening that Jameson talked about would have been attached to something on December 25th. No it was not. It is in the boiler room. The only thing in that boiler room is a small furnace, hot water heater and then the chest freezer, there is no room for anything else. That's how it was on the 25th and the duct goes out. When I got back from Boulder I mean when I got out of the house I was so upset and when I finally decided to make that information public I suggested to a couple of reporters that they go to the house, go to that window in the front of the house and drop a pebble in that duct and listen. And they did and they could hear that it went straight through to the floor. They all thought it was crazy not to block that up because of the heat. But plain and simple it was never blocked up, it was wide open and not connected to anything.

Dave Lucas: And a as far as, as far as the you mentioned there were three floors. Now is that full three floors or was that third floor like an attic area?

Jameson: In the original house I am sure it was the attic but it had been opened upwards and outwards and it was a huge master bedroom suite. The front is a huge bedroom which had a built in I don't know how you say it, like VCR type things like in the wall.

Dave Lucas: Like an entertainment center?

Jameson: Yeah, built in and a screen on the far wall then in the back of the house over JonBenet's bedroom, over Nedra's bedroom and over that hallway where the washer and dryer is there were two bathrooms and two dressing areas with huge closets you know including the cedar closet and a bathroom for Patsy and over JonBenet's bedroom there was a huge dressing room with a private bathroom that was John's.

Dave Lucas: Now um as far as I don't know to me like whenever, whenever I would see a house like that quote unquote a rich person's house for me it would seem like a unpenatratable fortress. It would have burglar alarms and gismos and gadgets, bars on the windows and you know a big strong brick house that sort of thing.

Lance Matthews: Why Dave what a good point.

Jameson: But it wasn't. Absolutely not in fact.

Lance Matthews: Patsy had a, or they had a security system installed and from what I heard Patsy was really neurotic about security with that house and was really serious about the installation, I believe she even supervised it and said things to the people who installed it and am I wrong there?

Jameson: Well I don't know what she said to the people who installed it but I do know they didn't use the system. I was not commonly set up and used. They had windows that were actually unlocked and opened and had electrical wires going out in order to hook up the Christmas lights, the great display of Christmas decorations they had outside and my windows in my house are Pella windows if there unlocked you have to crank them open. The house, the windows in the Ramsey house, once they are unlocked they are push and pull open, I mean they open like doors and when I was at the house in December one of those windows was unlocked and you just pushed it open from outside and went over the ledge into the dining room and I'm a older middle aged woman and absolutely no problem, we are not talking about a window that you had to climb up and into. We're talking about low big windows that were very easy to get into and the security there was rotten. Whoever put in the security system, whoever advised them on the security of the house sucked.

Lance Matthews: Well, you even said that they didn't or they claim that they didn't even have the security system on that night.

Jameson: It was not on that night. It was No, you got to understand Boulder I think I did have the, there was an article put out in the paper later that like two percent of the alarms that went off were valid, the rest of them were false alarms. They have got wildlife in Boulder and winds in Boulder and they were going to charge people for the false alarms but the Ramsey's with the kids and stuff and seven, I mean there are seven outside doors on the bottom level. They weren't just very security conscience that's all. I mean you don't leave that kind of window unlocked with an electrical cord going out and turn around and say you people had great security system and was security conscience.

Dave Lucas: Seven doors?

Jameson: Yes there are seven doors. There's a door that goes into the sitting room, a door that goes into the dining room, a door that goes into the back hallway, door to the garage, the butlers pantry, the front door, and I mean and on the second floor there are doors that go in from the balcony to other areas. One into JonBenet's bedroom and one into the family room.

Dave Lucas: Wow, so anybody could have gotten in there. All you got to do is leave one door unlocked and the security system is not turned on of course I guess in the footage I saw on Television there was snow around but not that much, I mean there are places where you could have walked where you would have not have left any footprints in the snow. And I imagine if there are seven doors there probably would have been opportunities there to actually find a door that perhaps was unlocked or could easily be opened. Some of these modern doors all you need is a knife or a c#FF0000it card slipped in the right way you .

Jameson: Could have gone in the window.

Lance Matthews: Yeah but, coulda, woulda, shoulda, yeah and OJ could be innocent. Reality is, I don't know somebody who wanted a question asked and a this is right to Jameson, did the intruder plan to set up the Ramsey's for the murder?

Jameson: Oh I don't think so, I don't think he ca#FF0000 one way or the other. He just wanted to kill her.

Lance Matthews: So your saying this person wrote this dumb note as a ruse?

Jameson: I think he wrote it as, I think that the person was in the house, that he intended to take the child and kill her. I don't think he ca#FF0000 who got blamed for it as long as he didn't. I think that when he was in the house he had to do something, he had to wait in the basement till the Ramsey's got home, quieted down, whatever, he took the pad and the paper down there and what's he gonna do, I mean, I think that he fantasized you know if I had some place to take her what kind of note might I leave for these people to show control, I'm macho and in control and I think that the ransom note was just a ruse. If he was trying to set up the Ramsey's I think he would have written her name. I don't think he knew how to spell or write her name. It's an odd name, if you never seen it, how do you write JonBenet? Although he may have heard it I don't think he knew what the name was. I think if he wanted to set up the Ramsey's he might have, he might have used her name, he might have asked for a lot more money, you know to try to make it look like the parents thought their kids were worth a lot of money. The note was just a fantasy, I mean it's a fantasy note and the person never expected to ……..

Lance Matthews: Hmmmm

Jameson: But what to get back to the to the to the windows and stuff, I went back to the house in December and it was close to the anniversary of the murder and I took pictures of that house and there was snow in the yard and I posted on the Timeline it shows something I really didn't expect, there are a lot of trees around that house but the way the sun comes up and shines in that yard the South portion of that yard clea#FF0000 from snow even before the front of the house did where there are no trees. It's very very strange. But the South side clears and I shown that and I documented that in the photos and even though there was snow in the front of the house when I was there I could have easily gotten into the window without stepping into snow and the back door that was suppose to have been left unlocked, which by the way is glass. If somebody wanted to break in you know you could have broken the glass put your hand in and unlocked it.

Lance Matthews: aaaha

Jameson: I just I think if the parents wanted to make it look like somebody broke into the house they would have staged a break in and they didn't.

Dave Lucas: In the note or actually the signature at the end of the note, S.B.T.C. Did anybody ever venture any a, any a information what that might stand for?

Lance Matthews: (laughing) Yeah Dave there are a hund#FF0000 explanations. Where did John go for his military training again, Jameson?

Jameson: Subic Bay but that…..

Lance Matthews: What was the name of it?

Jameson: Subic Bay

Lance Matthews: Subic Bay Training Center, S.B.T.C., then there is Saved By The Cross, people are famous for their Patsy's religious things, saved by the cross, S.B.T.C. There's even a, hey I lived in Berkley for a while there's South.Bay …… Company, I mean there's a hund#FF0000 things.

Jameson: One of the suspects in this case had a sweatshirt that had S.B.T.C. on it. I am not going to go into any detail on this but there is a suspect in this case who had a sweatshirt with those letters on it and his girlfriend brought that to the attention to the authorities. There is also Sorry Bout This Christmas. Nobody knows what S.B.T.C. stands for but the killer.

Lance Matthews: Well, Jameson, if the killer planned on killing her and had her targeted and how come he didn't know her name to put on the ransom note?

Jameson: Oh I think he probably seen her or heard of her or lets just say one of my off theories and I mean I am not accusing anyone but lets just say John Andrew is at the college with a friend named Joe and Joe and him are budding all around all the time. And Joe's got a friend name Wilton and one day Wilton says you know, what are you doing and they say I don't know were going to go to the movies but first we got to stop by John Andrew's house and pick up a jacket so you got Wilton, once in five years he's gone to this house, sees this little girl, hears the name JonBenet. Hmmm, let's just say the guys a sicko, you know he heard the kids name, he may have thought it over in his mind but how would he know how to write it or spell it. I think anybody who left a note, two and a half pages in his own hand writing had to feel fairly secure that he would not be a suspect and not be asked for a handwriting sample so I think you have to look just outside the circle where someone would be suspect and someone like this friend of a friend who was at the house once would fit into that. Might have heard the child's name, thought about it and remembe#FF0000 it but how do you write it.

Lance Matthews: I don't think that would be an issue in this …… business, (laughs) you know, I don't think that would be an issue. I don't know, like I said, in my mind I can only buy two, two scenarios and first and foremost is that the parents are covering up for a murder done in that house by one of the three people there. My theory would be that Patsy did it but the only other scenario that I can even consider would be a, you know that somebody had set those people up, that went in and got the pad of paper at the time, wrote the note, knew how Patsy's handwriting is because there are many many similarities there that anyone can see. Hey just type www.justicewatch.com and put you on a page with handwriting sample. You can see the, you can see the handwriting right there. Okay.

Dave Lucas: Someone, someone could have actually had something or seen something that Patsy had written and just tried to mimic it.

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah.

Jameson: Oh sure, they had Patsy's pad.

Lance Matthews: That is one of, that is the only other theory that I can think of is like somebody had planned this thing out and attempted to write like Patsy.

Jameson: Well they were writing on that pad.

Lance Matthews: Cause there is so many similarities to the handwriting like the Y's and the T's and the H's and you could go all day. I don't know.

Jameson: But you have to understand, they took Patsy's pad to the basement. Patsy had written on the top sheets of paper. They took three sheets from the middle of that pad and they wrote on it so if they were gonna copy anybodies writing it was going to be the writing on that pad which was Patsy's. But I don't happen to think that anybody copied…..

Dave Lucas: What was written on the pad, does anybody know what was on there before?

Jameson: No, we have just been told that it was Patsy's pad and it's what she did her planning on, you know who to call, what chores had to be done, ah, the family schedule.

Lance Matthews: You know, back to the, back to the security system for a moment. In the news just before this murder there was the news in Boulder saying that there was a burglar, in fact I lived there at the time, I lived a short town over in Longmont ah but I visited Boulder everyday and there was news, I mean it was the buzz in the papers was this burglar up, up in that area too.

Jameson: The midnight burglar.

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah, the midnight burglar. I find it hard to believe that a family that was that rich with that many things in the house and of course the most precious possessions that they had were their children.

Jameson: But that police report did not come out in the newspaper, the police brief or whatever till after the murder. I came out in January.

Lance Matthews: I thought just before the murder they were putting out reports in the Daily Camera about the burglar.

Jameson: I don't know, I didn't see it when I went looking when I first came in I didn't see anything then I found the police brief and it's funny because the police brief suddenly disappea#FF0000 and you couldn't get it anymore.

Lance Matthews: Well the best to my knowledge is I remember that Christmas just before Christmas eve somebody talking about this burglar. I don't know the whole thing looks completely funky. Somebody just wrote in private chat and said they were looking it up now so hopefully, hopefully we will find out in a moment.

Dave Lucas: Okay and while we are waiting to find that out we are going to take a short break. Your listening to Dave Lucas on AM 590. It's twenty nine minutes after two o'clock on a Tuesday morning.

Transcript Is Continued ~ See Below

[Part 1] [Part 2] [Part 3] [Part 4] [Part 5] [Part 6] [Part 7]
[02-15-1999 1 thru 7] [02-15-1999 Show] [Guest Index] [All Shows]


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